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I like how Jamie takes the time to mute his mic before he coughs. I wish people on other podcasts had this kind of self awareness. Great show guys!

John and Pete at least tried to make a difference...

What about Bill Pettis for best arms?!?!

Another amazing episode! Also, I about fell off my chair when Jamie mentioned his paypal. LOL

Here we get a contrary opinion. ruclips.net/video/i8FiXHAk0ow/видео.html a professor saying cardio is bad for you. so what is the reality here, train all day or a few minutes once or twice a week, crossfit all day or HIT deadlift and dips once a fortnight. If things were what they seem to be, there would be no need for science, and here we have scientists/medical professionals defending diametrically opposing positions while we scratch our heads.

The VO2 max q…maybe some of you have heard of Peter Attia MD, he wrote “Outlive”. He says of all the metrics, VO2 is most highly correlated with longevity. So important stuff. The protocol he advocates is the one mentioned in this discussion, the 4x4. So you warm up and then you do zone 5 for 4 mins. For most of us the only practical way to do this is via heart rate monitor. You need to be at 95% plus of max heart rate. I do it by hill running. Then 4 mins recovery, I walk down the hill. A grand total of 4 reps, then cool down. Once a week is enough. This is hard, hard work. Recently I have been doing it with a skipping rope and kettlebells, same heart rate idea. I find it less problematic in terms of soreness and recovery. Attia recommends that we do the bulk of our cardio in zone 2, so 60-70% of max. This is easy. I can jog but for many, jogging is too hard to stay in this zone. Jog walk may be required. He advises against the middle ground. It’s a lot of zone 2, a little zone 5, and strength training and some other stuff he calls stability.

I recently heard this “60 is when youth starts”. Ok, think about it…at a certain point the posing and the massive lifts become irrelevant. What you need is not to die or be an invalid. You need to fight ageing. Now of course, if you have done nothing for 6 decades, bad start, but maybe the thing is, at some point, you need to think it terms of health and longevity and the rest is increasingly irrelevant.

John Terilli came second to Lee Haney in 1983 at the Pro World Cup, apparently only one point in it. I personally thought John had a better Physique, like a bigger more complete Zane.

Thanks for the podcast & hardwork Shawn & Jamie . Very informative keep going 👊👍

So how did you gain weight when you gave up cream?

Reg Park was 100% natural, grew up around him my dad was his mate He actually stopped competing because of the peds influence in bodybuilding

2000 set ups a DAY

Mix video...true lies....!!!

Randy's Muscle, Smoke, and Mirrors books have sections about Rheo H. Blair, the REAL nutritional program most of the big guys were using until around 1979.

Well his dad was a literal n_zi soldier so... Fruit don't fall far from the tree.

Glad you ended up seeing that article Shawn. Craig and yourself made some great points about that and the current "testosterone crisis" (I wonder which crisis is next after this). There's a lot of grifting going on. I did not consider that supplementation is necessary as you age so kudus for expanding my perspective there. It's worrying to see young lifters be so infatuated with T levels and using it as an excuse to hop on the gear. I'm also a regular watcher of Natural Hypertrophy and couldn't agree with you both that the best approach to lifting is borrowing elements from both schools of thought to maximise the gym-going experience and gains. I'm also glad that someone else can't stand Mike Isratael's lame gimmick. Had to stop watching with the forced (cringe) comedic jokes he would insert after every two-three sentences.

Arrogance is often associated with stupidity.

Really enjoyable episode. It is ridiculous to suggest the York lifters were HIT practitioners. Jamie has the truth from historical research but also consider from a practical safety standpoint. They were lifters who used free weights and to do a weighted Squat to failure is stupid as you put yourself in position to seriously hurt yourself. I mean on a leg press you could work to failure and survive. (I wonder if Dorian's injury while squatting was due to such a stupid mentality. He then used the leg press successfully.) Unless I'm mistaken the York lifters did not advocate things like forced reps and preferred to demonstrate independence, dominance and mastery over the weights. If Steve Stanko was pulling over a substantial weight to bench, I can't see Grimek or another Yiork lifter being any different. They were lifters for the long haul. Why risk hurting youself and stop making progress on the thing you love? A contemporary such as Bill Pearl illustrates the same mentality. Except from an article on his heavy training. He’d do a full-body workout routine for developing power on Monday, Wednesday, and Fri, then he’d rest the other four days out of the week. Before the working sets, he’d 1-2 warmup sets and then would use 75-90% of his one-rep max for each lift. He rests 2-3+ minutes between sets. Pearl didn’t train to failure with this routine; he’d stop when the reps began to slow down. Seems like a sensible thing to do with his poundages. Part of the reason HIT is popular I think because of the gym machine culture.They are built with safety in mind. You can safely work to failure without weights crashing down on you. It may be worth exploring how Gyms have changed since the 50s and the impact it has had. I remember hearing about 'Doug's Gym' in Texas where nothing had changed since the 60s. Same equipment and certainly no air conditioning. A time capsule from its time.Even Leo Stern's Gym when Bill Pearl first entered it or Draper's Dungeon style Gym based in a Cellar where he was happiest.

When I trained HIT style, I actually don't know how well it worked for muscle building because I stayed hurt all the time on those programs. And before anyone says it: I DID use proper form, I DID warm up, and I DID train slowly. But I stayed hurt all the time, primarily my shoulders, but also all kinds of muscle pulls and strains, etc.

This Arnold would beat up new and unimproved Arnold today.

Thanks for this video.

Lol

@ 4:13min " Good riddens to both of them..."?!?! Jamie, for a smart dude you act like a r*tarded dick. What makes you so miserable and self- hating?

#rnoldschwarzenegger Arnold 💪 with Arnold.....on

I don't know if he knows about neck traction, but it might help. I also think there is not a lot of reason to do neck bridges if you don't wrestle. Neck harness will build your neck better.

4 months in- never going back.Wish I knew about this 20 years ago. Lost 8kg in the first 3 weeks and have since lost another 7kg,yet the best part is an 80% reduction in joint pain/inflammation. My wife's rheumatoid arthritis disappeared within 2 weeks. We just 'cheated' with mushrooms,chilli and garlic in a slow cooked brisket yet felt fine and will certainly limit that... Better sleep,mental clarity,happier within... Bacon,eggs,skin on salmon with a few prawns,chicken wings,lamb,a plethora of beef choices,and BUTTER is what works for us... Oxylate dumping had my eyes 'grainy' for a few days 2 months in but quickly passed... We're spreading the word for friends to at least try it for 30 days... Keep up the content brother!!!

Loved it Shawn. Cheers mate

4:33 an hamster born in an aquarium is a fish 🐹= 🐟

Jamie was so blatantly wrong about Lyle when he wasn’t using ad hominems that I don’t see any point listening to any other podcasts you have him on. Basically I know he was wrong about Lyle so I can’t trust him about anyone else I don’t know if he’s even being truthful. And your lack of push back on him when you know Lyle and what Jaime is saying is wrong is just sad. But hey you get some views right?

Was the Harvard study "Hypothesis: Vin Mariani is awesome! Experiment: drink a shit ton Conclusion: HolyshithaveyouheardaboutwhatthwRockefellersaregoingtodowiththatnewrailroadthing?openyoureyespeopleitsallabouttheadrenochrome! HUNNNNNNNGH! Dontworrythatwasjustalittleheartattackimfine. Thisshitsgreat!"

Best one yet. You guys seem to be finding a natural flow to your discussions. Also: there’s a new sport out there. Car jujitsu. It’s kind of crazy watching people spar in cars.

Best English accent - South Yorkshire ( mine). Surveys say it is the most trusted of all UK dialects. It maintains old English biblical terms. You = thee. Your = thy. Tends to abbreviate and fully drop the definite article. I am going to the shop = Am gunna shop. It is not in the tin = tintintin. Form and function…I would also say health is further cornerstone which is not necessarily covered by the former and is relevant to PED use. No genetics…find that hard to swallow. Sure everyone can be good at something but not everyone can be good at any specified sport. I cannot see, for example, dwarves taking many gold medals apart from in those activities that do not discriminate in favour of the taller, and if that is the case, you could likely say the same about shorter athletes. Obviously there is a point where hard work may compensate but I doubt that some 4 foot six lad is going to be on many podiums. Not to say they cannot excel in some activity. Perhaps in many cases there is no absolute barrier to entry, but I would tend to think that those endowed with genetic gifts have a far easier time of it. Our friend Mike Mentzer was a big proponent of the genetic factor. I would tend to think just as there is variance in height largely down to genetic inheritance, there is variance in many other qualities, and all other factors being equal ( which they are not) the genetic advantage will prevail. Genetics and drugs might not be the alpha and omega, but neither are they insignificant. Absolutism is a poor guide here, we need a more dialectical perspective. ….Squatting 650 is easy, anyone can do anything….sounds off to me. Maybe if you believe in “the force” but back in the material world….

First…

If you can't get a Geneticist then an Evolutionary Biologist may be helpful. The question of genetics cannot be considered without taking into account evolution. Fitness for environment determine which genes move forward. Those innate traits, which help you survive your environment and persuade females to reproduce with you. Humans have adapted to various climates and situations such as warring tribes and so you get the different peoples around the world. Questions to pose. How much Genetic Diversity is there in the humans Species? What is the role of epigenetics in evolution? Is there an age where epigenetics generally happens more? (I'm guessing adolescent.) If you turn on dormant genes does that change your genetic sequence? Does that transfer to your offspring? The flea in jar experiment where fleas placed in jar jumped lower than they would normally to avoid banging their heads. Their offspring limited their jump heights to that of the jar. Seems to suggest tramsmission of survival knowledge via the genes. Unless I missed the point. If a person had child A before they got jacked and child B after they got jacked. Would child B inherit a greater propensity for being jacked? If this were the case and Child B gets Jacked. They have Child C. Would Child C have even higher potential for being jacked. Anedotal evidence. Lee Priest's mother was a bodybuilder. Did she have Lee before her exposure to weights or after? Frank Zane says that his father had a naturally good physique from just hard labour. Ronnie Coleman's mother! Environment I remember reading somewhere about a swim meet with swimmers competing in various rounds and the winners going forward to the final. At the final all swimmers had very similar bodies. Those bodies most suited for the swimming activity went through. Kinda like evolution in real time. How does that apply to bodybuilding? Bodybuilding used to prize various traits such as shapely muscles, thin skin and small joints. These combinations are good for bodybuilding but bad in other environments. Lee Haney kept breaking his legs when playing football due to small joints and Dorian Yates thin skin kept getting him bloodied in Martial arts. In certain environments they are champions but in other fields of little note.

Wise head.

The best way to move forward, is to look back. Very well said.

Frankly Zane had one of the best looks. He was one of my favorite's. I know he wasn't massive but his look was just perfect.

Coward

Sadly I never seem to catch the live episode, but one thing I would like to bring up for Jamie or anyone is his take on Doggcrapp /DC training. In part because Shaun has mentioned taking on Dorian style. I tend to think that this high intensity approach is optimal in one sense, fastest, most direct way to get the job done. But it is brutal, and is going to alienate the masses who do not want to go to the extreme end. Start talking about squats and deadlifts for high reps and the crowd disappears, taking their money with them. To me it seems that this endeavour is becoming ever more drug fuelled, perhaps in part because I live in the UK where roids are legal and widespread. But even so, this is not necessarily leading to massive muscularity. Of the millions on steroids, how many are training hard on the big lifts? I do not know, but I suspect that many are hopping on gear to avoid the hard work. On gear, everything works. Watch Netflix and grow to a certain extent at least, depending on response. I think this aspect, gear and genetics, including response to gear, is all part and parcel of the science vs art debate. Increasingly ( so it seems to me) the results are coming out of a lab. And when one considers professional bodybuilding, the evolution from say Reg Park to Nick Walker, this is evident. Admittedly I know little about the gear in its various aspects, I have not pursued that path, but I tend to think that minus that factor, then the subjective element of programming or simply going by feel is largely eliminated and the vast majority not blessed with any special genetic advantage have to work within a much narrower set of parameters/ principles to get anywhere beyond mediocre.

Catgut is usually made from rumanant intestine. Cows,goats etc not cats. Not allot to work with

Dorking hard! Ty Shawn, Jamie & Gretta

He's an chameleon

I'm glad Mike Mentzer Beat up Arnold! Mentzer was robbed of the Mr. Olympia that year.

Gay man. Gay "sport".

Your conversations are a gold mine of nuggets to consider. Not even a third of the way through. I may well be barking up the wrong tree. The discussion of whether Bodybuilding is an Art or Science has points on both sides, but I would say that Bodybuilding is a Technology. The use of technology predates science. Just as the body of Bodybuilding knowledge comes from history rather than Science. Technology is a broad concept that deals with a species' usage and knowledge of tools .... affects a species' ability to control and adapt to its environment. A popular defintion. Barbells, Dumbell, Indian Clubs and rocks are the tools in Bodybuilding. Science is knowing, but technology is about doing. I can understand Jamie's frustration with Science, although I'm inclined to agree on Lyle on intuition. Often we can't articulate the instincts. A deeper form of intelligence. We know from our gut and that's enough in many cases. Tom Platz is the best example of an intelligent bodybuilder that relied on instincts. Later on when working with Fred Hatfield, he could appreciate the science behind some of his practices such as the stretching he did. He did it because it felt good.

Hang in there Shawn , Your hard work is appreciated.. 👊

I haven't seen any proof of these allegations.

Today would have been a different story

Nothing like listening to a bald fuck who looks like smeagol. Talk about someone using methamphetamines when he looks like he's been using crack cocaine since day one.

As a young man I loved bodybuilding as much as anybody and came very close to using steroids. I never used the drugs and now I am 52 and still in pretty good shape! It's affirming to hear these stories about the truth of what my old heroes used to do to attain their Mass. Back in the 90s no one ever told the truth. Staying natural I'm in better shape than everybody else I know. If I had followed this path who knows if I would even still be alive. External alchemy shortens the lifespan.